Turtle talk

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kimbo.murderincorporated	Turtle talk	Lead	[-]
Posts: 193 (06/23/2009 10:53 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None As per turtles clawing, from personal experience I have found that turtles (which have webbing between their claws) claw in a expanded reach. They seem to use the full expansion of their webs in attack, or to grasp at food. I haven't noticed that snapping turtles narrow/tighten their claws in any particular instance, other than during mating. Does anyone have any more information they can share? Sweet Boo had a turt; what were your experiences? Any herpetology help appreciated. For the truth: The question I was answering had to do with the existence of evidence. And here's the thing: it exists. Larner asks where ANY evidence is, I answer the question. If this sort of accuracy (is) disappointing, then I'm clearly in the wrong place. (Johnny the Chef)
dollparts1		#1	[-]
Posts: 1094 (06/24/2009 2:29 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My turt Kurt used to claw his food. He used to snap it and tear it to shreads with his teeth and claws. I was reading about the common snapping turtle and found out something I did not know... They are experts at finding rotting flesh!!! http://www.holoweb.com/cannon/snapping.htm Common Snapping Turtles can sniff out carrion (dead animals), which they add to their diet of plants, small birds and fish. They are so fearless and aggressive that on occasion, they have been known to attack swimmers. Because of their unique ability to detect dead and rotting flesh, Common Snapping Turtles have been used to help police search for human corpses! Doll "If you ever need anything please don't, hesitate to ask someone else first, I'm too busy acting like I'm not naive"
freethewm3stl		#2	[-]
Posts: 2656 (06/24/2009 9:26 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yuck. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, commited citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." ~ Margaret Mead
kimbo.murderincorporated		#3	[-]
Posts: 195 (06/25/2009 1:45 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Doll, when Kurt was ripping away with his claws, did he have always them splayed? I found this action consistent. Clawing almost as us humans would claw in attack with our hands, tendons tight and fingers/nails (claws) apart. This a the claw of a snapping turtle at rest, well actually it's dead (notice its claw turned upwards). http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3589/3396113873_fe95a93472.jpg?v=0 This is a live one. Presumably he's not comfortable but he's not in attack mode, claws are at rest. Notice the distance between them. Even if you scale the turtle down (premusing the bloke pictured is of standard size), that's a fair distance. http://mail.colonial.net/~hkaiter/animalimages/snapturtle.jpg When turtles swim, or dig, feed, they expand their flippers and claws for maximum effect. They quite primative creatures and reliable in their behaviours. The eat, they sleep, they breed if they can. Burt does a wonderful tank dance when he sees me, but it's always the SAME tank dance, you know? There's something rather lovely about that and the tortoise didn't beat that hare by accident. They are steady and reliable in their actions. Here's a couple of pics of smaller ones floating about, as they do. http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/26/1e/ae/huge-alligator-snapping.jpg http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Turtle84.jpg Swimming, claws semi-splayed. http://www.ngsprints.co.uk/images/M/508564.jpg Upside down scared!... http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Turtle128.jpg I can't find a pic of them feeding (not that STL would want to see it, I sure dont like to feed live too often anymore !). The point is - weren't these scratches that "proved" that the turtles-dun-it only millimetres apart? How is this possible based on distance between the claws we can see in the pictures (mildful the claws are mostly at rest, rather than expanded in excitement) coupled with the feeding clawing behaviour we know is ingrained in these turtles. Even in the young adults pictured the claws are well splayed. Even baby snappers have a generous claw span. Here's a cute picture of a newly hatched turtle. http://www.hiltonpond.org/images/TurtleSnappingHatchling02.jpg See the size of his jaw? This turtle is way too premature to rip into carrion, he's just a hatchling. Turtles don't have teeth and can't dislocated their jaw (like snakes, say) so they can only eat what fits in their jaw space. This little fella would still be close to the nest. It the turtles did it, was it a renegade (possibly claw taped) baby mutant ninja team? Otherwise it does not make sense. I haven't read Paidfer's latest adjustment so not sure where we stand with the current theory. I don't see it as physiologically or behaviourly - viz feeding habits - possible. This has been bugging me for a while so any input would be welcome. I am not a turtle expert but, like sweet Boo did, have one of these wonderful turtles gracing my company and have had a layman's interest for a while, attending herpetology seminars and educating myself about the wonderful turtle. I just grabbed these pics from Google but do have a few books on turtle's behaviour, in capitivity and in the wild. I actually had two turtles at one stage and one died. They are not a short term pet, they SHOULD live twice as long as a dog, if not much more, and one died after a couple of years. When I saw a bloody stool and him just panting up on the platform, through much searching I found a turtle vet, or at least one that was experienced in herpetology (hadn't needed one before). The first day he was given an antibiotic and vitamin shot and sprayed out the most NOXIOUS fluid I have even smelt from behind his flippers. It was like every bad smell put together. The smell, skink of distress, if it could be a scent. So it took a week for him to die, daily vet visits and shots, and then just checks, checks for the other (who was completely well), separation of them with the sick one in the bath. Awful. At the risk of sounding like the Simpson's equilavent of the Cat Lady, I just went mad on turtle information after then. After renaming Burt (I was under the impression they were both females but apparently they were both males) I vowed to take responsibilty for his hopefully long life. Saga aside (thank goodness for "off topic"), appreciating turtles as prehistoric, with eating, even with carrion, they are viscious and quick in attack, as is their nature.Those who have seen them in action know. It is a known behaviour that a snapping turtle, especially one of the alligator variety would rip into food with their claws extended. Where does that leave us on the alligator snapping turtle claw (knife) marks, by default? Kimbo For the truth: The question I was answering had to do with the existence of evidence. And here's the thing: it exists. Larner asks where ANY evidence is, I answer the question. If this sort of accuracy (is) disappointing, then I'm clearly in the wrong place. (Johnny the Chef) Last Edited By: kimbo 06/25/2009 4:43 AM. Edited 6 times.
dollparts1		#4	[-]
Posts: 1095 (06/25/2009 8:02 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Kimbo, Having Kurt and Floyd in my life was the best. Being a landscaper I would find turts in all th wrong places, so I only kept them until they were big enough to not get eaten by birds. Kurt was a snapping turtle, Floyd was a Terrapin. Floyd did the lovely turtle dance but not Kurt.. This is what I meant by using his claws to eat(video seems to want to be above) In any event I dont know if the poor turtles did anything to the kids, since I dont even know what the theory is either.. I have never fed Kurt any live food except for fish. I have a parrot fish that lived with him in the same 100 gallon tank and believe it or not they were friends til the end,lol... My parrot fish would suck Kurts head inside her mouth and he never bit her. I had Kurt for about a year and I still have the parrot fish.. When I had him I contacted a man online that I had seen on tv, who had said that keeping turtles in tanks and then letting them go would mean that they would NOT survive.. So I contacted someone in my town who helped me get Kurt and Floyd back into the wild where they needed to be..� Kurt was huge when out of the tank as opposed to inside it.. When I took him out he hissed at me and scared the be-jesus outa me! When we took him to the lake by my house, I was crying my eyes out, and I kept saying Kurt I love you.. and he walked back up to me, stared at me for a minute or so and took off into the mud.. The man that was with me put a tag on him but I have never seen him again. Anyway that is my sad story, and in ending when I find a turtle that is half dead in a pile of dirt that was dumped on my landscaping jobs I will try to save it, but only for as long as it takes to get them back to where they belong.. They are lovely creatures, Floyd (who I think was a girl) was so friendly and seemed to be so happy. He/she would do that turtle dance that we both love whenever I came near the tank. She had a sepperate tank because I didnt want Kurt to take her head off.. I didnt have he/she that long but do miss her:( Again, I don't know which wounds are being blamed on the turles, so I cant be of any help with that, but having had a snapper, I doubt they did the damage.. Doll "If you ever need anything please don't, hesitate to ask someone else first, I'm too busy acting like I'm not naive"
dollparts1		#5	[-]
Posts: 1096 (06/25/2009 8:12 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Here is another Kimmy, Maybe I am wrong! Look at how this snapper is eating a big fish... Doll "If you ever need anything please don't, hesitate to ask someone else first, I'm too busy acting like I'm not naive"
Cruecial68		#6	[-]
Posts: 106 (06/25/2009 11:23 AM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I ain't about to start hypothesizing about snapping turtles, their feeding habits, the webbing of their feet, etc., 'cause I don't know nothin' bout no turtles. I had a tarantula, though...does that count? When I was a punk little kid, my parents moved us to a tiny town close to Turrell, AR. We kids hung around some folks who used to catch baby snappers, which they called 'tablets.' They were cute little buggers and I never gave handling them a second thought. One day, these guys caught an adult. Of course, I was a young child at the time and that sucker seemed massive to me. They were holding it by the sides of its shell, taking turns carrying it, and that critter was doing everything in its power to grab hold of one them to bite. I got a little scared seeing that, and I suddenly lost interest in handling the babies. I see turtles every now and again crossing the road around here. I couldn't say with any certainty that they're snappers. We have drainage ditches all around our neighborhood, two big arsed ones are located on either side of our driveway. The only time I ever attempt touching them is to help get them off the road. I ensure that no fingers...or toes...are anywhere near them. Crack the glass in my head.
Girlene		#7	[-]
Posts: 6509 (06/25/2009 11:59 AM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Doll...that's so awesome! I always stop for turtles in the road to move them to the side...I don't care how busy the street is. I'm stopping, and so is everybody else, dammit. "I would hate to know I was an innocent man, and my life depended on 12 people." West Memphis Assistant Police Chief Mike Allen, Arkansas Dem-Gazette, 5/10/05
WM		#8	[-]
Posts: 78 (06/25/2009 1:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	When I was a punk little kid, my parents moved us to a tiny town close to Turrell, AR. Heafer? These snapping turtles round here don't play. http://therealwestmemphisthree.yuku.com/
Cruecial68		#9	[-]
Posts: 109 (06/26/2009 3:04 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	WM wrote: Heafer? These snapping turtles round here don't play. Did you just call me a name? Naw, I was thinking it was Lehi...but the last time I was in Turrell [which was two years ago], I don't ever remember seeing anything pointing to Lehi. The folks always said that's where it was, though. Crack the glass in my head.
WM		#10	[-]
Posts: 79 (06/27/2009 3:12 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Cruecial68 wrote: WM wrote: Heafer? These snapping turtles round here don't play. Did you just call me a name? Naw, I was thinking it was Lehi...but the last time I was in Turrell [which was two years ago], I don't ever remember seeing anything pointing to Lehi. The folks always said that's where it was, though. HAHA! No, that would be heffer, I think, lol. Heafer is a town right next to Turrell. Lehi is about 2 miles west of WM. Turrell is about 15 miles north of WM. http://therealwestmemphisthree.yuku.com/
kimbo.murderincorporated		#11	[-]
Posts: 198 (07/05/2009 10:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I ain't about to start hypothesizing about snapping turtles, their feeding habits, the webbing of their feet, etc., 'cause I don't know nothin' bout no turtles. I had a tarantula, though...does that count? Sure it does, love, they are very cool. Any animal care is great, I reckon. Boo may not have heard of the turtle theory, but have you? Do you think it plausible? For the truth: The question I was answering had to do with the existence of evidence. And here's the thing: it exists. Larner asks where ANY evidence is, I answer the question. If this sort of accuracy (is) disappointing, then I'm clearly in the wrong place. (Johnny the Chef)
freethewm3stl		#12	[-]
Posts: 2672 (07/05/2009 10:34 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	/me doesn't do spiders very well at all. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, commited citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." ~ Margaret Mead
kimbo.murderincorporated		#13	[-]
Posts: 199 (07/06/2009 12:10 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	LOL, STL. I just think of the size difference. I think it was drummed into me at some point, but just imagine if you saw something a thousand times huger than you and hideously fat in comparison. Now THAT'S something to be scared of. To see us big clumsy humans running around crazy at the sight of a little spindly spider seems silly. Well unless one lobs into your lap when you put the sun visor down on your car.... or drops of your face in the midddle of the night... yeah, they're cool. It's never what you're scared of that really gets you in the end. The nights worried about the thing under the bed as opposed to the thing IN the bed - well it's all relative, isn't it. As per turtles, do you think - based on what we know of them - that they would just jab or peck at flesh? Carefully deglove? Have you heard those theories, STL? Not a spider nor toucan in sight, mind. Kimbo For the truth: The question I was answering had to do with the existence of evidence. And here's the thing: it exists. Larner asks where ANY evidence is, I answer the question. If this sort of accuracy (is) disappointing, then I'm clearly in the wrong place. (Johnny the Chef)
Cruecial68		#14	[-]
Posts: 122 (07/07/2009 11:29 AM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	STL, my sis HATES spiders. However, she was the one who bought the tarantula for me as an early Christmas gift. A friend of mine in college used them in psychology experiments. She brought one with her one morning, and when I handled it, etc., I decided I wanted one. If she had hung on, I would have had her nine years this November. They're not quite as scary as one might think. Mine was a Chilean Rosehair, and they are fairly docile, non-threatening types. She was like having a pet rock that happened to eat crickets. And Kimbo, as far as the turtle theory, yes, I am familiar with it. Just thinking about those snappers as a small child, how fast they seem to move in water, etc., I would think that if they could get hold of something, they could possibly yank it hard and swiftly enough to appear as if it was done gently. I think of yanking a band-aid off the skin. If a person yanks it off in one swift motion, it might appear as if it was done slowly and gently. I know band-aids and snapping turtles have no relation to each other. But that's how I see it. Am I answering your question? Not exactly! I just don't know enough to be certain. Some marks I've seen which have been attributed to knife wounds also don't seem to be made with a knife. They look like scratches, as if something was digging into the flesh. In my opinion, if it was the famous 'lake knife' that made some of the wounds, they would not have been so cleanly done. I see them as possibly deeper and more severe in nature. I also can't say with any certainty that I believe those wounds were made by snapper claws, either. Crack the glass in my head. Last Edited By: Cruecial68 07/07/2009 11:47 AM. Edited 2 times.
kimbo.murderincorporated		#15	[-]
Posts: 200 (07/07/2009 8:46 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Crucial Thanks for your spidery tales. I do love hearing about our love of creatures, all. I sort of understand the band aid analogy, I think, lol, well at least in terms of bandaids; perhaps if we were both talking more specifically about that "something" our discussion would be clearer (I have started a thread in Gen Disc but no snaps as yet). Snapping turtles have the name because their jaws snap like a mousetrap. Although they don't have teeth their jaws are sharp and just snap straight through whatever they are feeding to a closed jaw, they don't ever snap half way or peck (even the domesticed ones, although you can get them to let go more quickly ). Their whole killing strength is in the power of their snap and they will try and fit as much in their mouths as they possibly can on that first hard snap, with suction, sometimes expelling the air through their cloaka (OK, I just wanted to say that word, it is sadly lost in general use, he he). They will NOT let go with a closed jaw until they have ripped off as much as possible, and for fair sized ones, it could easily be through bone. Their claws are for pulling apart the food in their mouth (or for digging nests, holes, climbing), not attacking. The lake knife marks were what, a quarter of an inch apart? Presuming a turtle clawed for no particular reason, what size alligator snapping turtle do you think could have created such injuries? There are lots of photos in this thread for comparison. Look at the size of their claws in relation to their snapping heads. Did you watch Boo's mouse video earlier in this thread? That gives you an idea. They don't skin so much as regurgitate skin. All snappers are darlingly, boringly the same, in this regard. The ones that can't snap like this die, as all they have left is flipper claws and a shell to hide. Thanks for replying Crucial. With enough information on some things you can say with certainty! The only ignorance is holding an incorrect opinion yet refusing to debate it. For the truth: The question I was answering had to do with the existence of evidence. And here's the thing: it exists. Larner asks where ANY evidence is, I answer the question. If this sort of accuracy (is) disappointing, then I'm clearly in the wrong place. (Johnny the Chef) Last Edited By: kimbo 07/08/2009 6:57 AM. Edited 12 times.
freethewm3stl		#16	[-]
Posts: 2674 (07/07/2009 11:59 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I know absolutly nothing about turtles Kim, so given that I'm not even gonna attempt at guessing whether or not they jab or peck. I've honestly never paid attention. The only turles I've ever had any experience with were pets, (not mine) and they were eating lettuce. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, commited citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." ~ Margaret Mead
kimbo.murderincorporated		#17	[-]
Posts: 201 (07/08/2009 6:50 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	STL, you are sweet even sitting through these descriptions. I know you don't have a tummy for the yukkier things. What I would like to do is perhaps share information and try and work out if the turtle theory is possible (I think not but am open to factual discussion.) Kreepy Krawly Kimbo XXX For the truth: The question I was answering had to do with the existence of evidence. And here's the thing: it exists. Larner asks where ANY evidence is, I answer the question. If this sort of accuracy (is) disappointing, then I'm clearly in the wrong place. (Johnny the Chef)
boohiss13		#18	[-]
Posts: 4153 (07/18/2009 4:40 PM) Booty Queen Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Boo may not have heard of the turtle theory, but have you? Of course I've heard it Kim, you big silly, I've been outta circulation, but not dead. SNORT! I think it's possible that more than just turtles harmed the bodies. I've wondered if a dog or dogs may not have gotten to them as well. Some of the "scratch" marks, and I'd have to put up some of the autopsy shots to show you which I don't have on this computer, look like dog claw-marks to me. But, naturally, that's just GUESSING. Snapping turtles are some nasty animals. I think folks who have never seen or really heard of them hear the ME's opinions about them in this case and think it laughable that a TURTLE could do that type of damage.....but it's very possible. Lemme see if I can find some examples...
boohiss13		#19	[-]
Posts: 4154 (07/18/2009 4:45 PM) Booty Queen Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	WHOA! Ok, I found a GREAT example of what a snapping turtle can do. Around 1 min. 10 seconds into this, watch for when the guy puts a stick up for the turtle to bite...and look at how big they are, and how fast. I'm gonna post this in General too, as I dont' know if most folks have ever seen one: http://videos.howstuffworks.com/howstuffworks/3603-the-snapping-turtle-video.htm
emmaline		#20	[-]
Posts: 712 (08/07/2009 10:00 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I just found this picture of a baby turtle and thought it was far too cute not to post! www.wm3blackboard.com

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